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Saturday, October 13, 2007

"The Line"

I want to continue the discussion about sexual purity and dating. It's been so good and thought provoking!
I want to discuss this idea of being physically involved while dating.
I said in a previous post that I want to throw up when I think about the fact that I kissed or held hands with any other boy besides Rusty. I truly mean that. I had no right to be that close to someone else's husband, nor did anyone have the right to my husband.
Where did we get this idea that we can try people out physically for a while?
From the Bible...hold on let me get my Bible...NO!
In fact, everything I can possibly find in the Bible pertaining this subject says RUN, FLEE, HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH sexual temptation. Don't flirt with it, don't see how close you can get to sex, get yourself going like a freight train and then try to slam on the brakes. (How's that for an analogy?)

2 Timothy 2:22 says "Run from anything that stimulates youthful lust."

1 Cor. 6:18 says "Run away from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does."

We can not be running away, and flirting with it at the same time. Girls, I think all married women can testify for you that we now understand that the process of sexual stimulation was not meant to be stopped. (I told you that we were going to have to get specific and embarrassing if we were going to talk about this!)
And a valid point was brought up, that we don't want to instill in our kids the idea that sex and sexual feelings are bad. They are not! They are meant for something so beautiful, sweet, and holy! But when we allow dating relationships where physical involvement occurs, they will soon learn that everytime they engage physically, they get into trouble, they sin, in thought and in actions, and they feel they are slaves to those feelings. They toe "the line" and that line starts moving, inch by inch, and the failure rate is through the roof! THEN, those sexual feelings are bad, and they are the enemy. That is NOT what I want my kids to understand about sexuality. I want them to know that all of it, ALL OF IT, is meant for their joy and intimacy in marriage, and it is a gift from our Creator. I feel like so much of the struggles with sex in the early years of marriage that I am counseling girls through is trying to de-program their minds from this mentality.
This idea that there is a "line" that we must tip-toe up to, try desperately not to cross, so often in vain, is not of God. He never said we ought to toe the line. He said RUN. Remember? He said FLEE! Right?
So where did we get this idea?
From the world.
It's SO from the world, and we have been trying to stuff the world's ideas about dating into the Bible and make it fit, and it doesn't.
If you are in college, and you are physically involved with someone, I beg you to stop. Nothing, and I seriously mean nothing, good will come from it. If you have children and you are letting them have boyfriends/ girlfriends and they spend alone time together, I beg you to stop them!
I am not referring to sex. I'm referring to all of it. I know you might think this is crazy, but I am pretty sure it's just crazy by the world's standards, not by God's standards.
Whose standards are we going to live by?
Who is ever going to meet their mate, tell them that they've never made out with anyone, and they won't make out with them, come to their wedding day and night with 0 experience and feel bad about it? If by God's grace, that could happen with my children, PRAISE THE LORD! I can't imagine how joyful that day would be! And if that doesn't happen, Rusty and I better know for certain that we did everything we were supposed to do to guide them in God's perfect way for them. We know it's up to them to follow.
On the other hand, to play with fire and be physically intimate with people who in no way belong to you, so many negative things can come from it, I can make you a list as long as my arm and give you specific names, numbers, and e-mail contacts to prove it.
It's not just my own experience. It's not just my opinion. The longer I work with college girls and engaged couples, the stronger and stronger I feel about this.
Here is a blog with some great discussion on this topic for you to check out if you're interested.
Thoughts anyone?


Jennifer Bacak said...

I'm pulling a Heather and putting the first comment on my own post because I don't feel like going back in to edit.
I wish I could count how many engaged couples come to our class, sit at our table at the one-on-one dinner with us, and when we ask "What is your greatest struggle?" they say "sexual sin." (They might word it a little differently, but seriously, if I only had a dollar...)
So many of them tell us they used to kiss, but that got way out of hand, so they stopped kissing until the wedding.
So what should I learn from that?
Maybe it would have been wiser not to kiss?
Kisses that seem innocent at first soon become progressively more passionate, and suddenly they last for 45 minutes...you get the picture. That so reminds me of the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"!
Anyway, just a thought to share. Someone else, tell me what you think!

Hendrick Family said...

I don't have anything to add about this, mainly because I've written so much about it on the Dating Worksheet and in Her Hands that my hands are tired of typing about this topic.

I wanted to add a link though.

Some of the best stuff on this topic was written by many married women from LH. I so appreciate their honesty and willingness to go back through their dating experiences...walking through it with the LORD, allowing Him to point out things that hurt Him.

They say some amazing things!

Go to:


Then click on the link on the left called, Wise Women Listen to Wise Counsel. There is a link on that page about sexual stuff. It's so good!

I wish I knew how to post links in comments...but Aaron isn't home, so I won't even attempt it!


Jennifer Bacak said...

I just edited that direct link back into the text of my post. Thanks Heather!

Cindy Seay said...

All of this reminds me of the Intimate Issues Conference. I know you have been to one. I took a group last fall and it was the best thing we have ever done as a women's group. There is so much good information for married women and single women - helping all of them to see God's picture for sex and the freedom we have in Him to be released from the world's view as well as from our own past that Satan wants to hold over our heads.
Satan truly wants to distort all of this - for singles he wants to convince them that it is okay to move beyond "the line"; for married women he wants to keep them bound by "the line".
I may be taking this beyond where you were going. Just my thoughts on this early Sunday morning.
i love you,

Allen Duty said...

Hello all, it's me - the guy who doesn't blog. I've been invited to leave a comment on this topic because I deal with it all the time in College and Youth Ministry.

I agree with Heather; there's not much more to be added to the great things Jenn has already said here. I thought the link to "Not Beneficial for Anything" was also very edifying. Because this seems to be such a huge issue for people, I plan to write a book called, "For this Reason: A Biblical Approach to Dating" (or something like that) that will cover the nuts and bolts of relationships from the Bible's perspective. I feel like there's been a lot of ink spilled on the philosophy of Christian courtship, but little said about exactly how that should go down.

The best resource out there is still "Boy Meets Girl" by Joshua Harris. I recommend it every time this conversation comes up and I'll continue to do so because I really don't think there's a better book out there besides the Bible which deals with this topic. Josh does a great job with "courtship theory" and a pretty good job with nuts and bolts issues as well.

In case you've missed the point from Jenn and Heather's previous posts or just want to hear it from a boy, here it is:

"Don't kiss or do anything that will further stimulate the already existing sexual passions until the day you are married. If you do, you are setting yourself up for failure through sexual impurity. Period."

Jennifer Bacak said...

Thanks Allen! I appreciate our staff so much in leading us to think scripturally, even when it's unpopular.
Thanks for blogging Allen!

Gina said...

Hi. Hope you don't mind my commenting on your blog, since you don't know me. I don't even remember how I stumbled across your blog last week, but your name stuck out because Dr. Bacak is my children's physician.

Anyhow, I've been reading your recent posts and discussions on purity, and I just wanted to say, "AMEN!" to everything you've said.

If I may, I also wanted to respond to your comments about hoping your children will come to their wedding day/night with zero past, and at the least, knowing that you and your husband "did everything we were supposed to do to guide them in God's perfect way for them." I cannot agree more! and I have the same desire/goal for my children.

But when thinking about this issue (of doing everything we're supposed to do as parents to protect the purity of our children), I've had to ask myself, am I (& my husband) really willing to pay the price and make the sacrifices necessary to make this happen??

Like...controlling the entire atmosphere of the home (including friends, music, TOYS, CLOTHES, books, ALL entertainment)? For us this means having no television in the home right now...maybe never. It sometimes means returning certain (inappropriate or compromising) birthday or Christmas gifts at the possible offense of the giver(s). Ouch.

Or, will it require a possible decision like...not sending our children "off" to college, but having them live at home if they are to pursue a higher education while single??

Some may think these boundaries are extreme, and I guess they are...but isn't it also an extreme command by God to "FLEE" and that "among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity" (Eph. 5:3)?? I believe an extreme command requires extreme steps of faith and obedience.

It's my prayer, as a Christian parent (and for all Christian parents), that I (we) be really willing to pay whatever price may be necessary (right now) to keep our children pure (now and later), with the grace and Spirit of God!

Thanks for letting me comment. Hope to meet you in person sometime.

Jennifer Bacak said...

Nice to bump into you in blog world, Gina! Thanks for the comment, and reading all of this.
I also think obedience will be extreme, especially in the world's eyes! As I teach my kids, and see the world through their eyes, I want them to see the world for what it is, and teach them to filter it through God's Word. So when we see or experience some of the things you mentioned, I remind them of what God calls us to, and that we will look different. For example, I don't use a Christian curriculum with them because I want them to learn from a secular curriculum, like most other kids, but filter it through what we know to be Truth. So when we learn about other religions, or religion lived out in history, we point out how people needed God, and still desperately need Him today. I want them to learn to interact with and love lost people. I feel like we're walking a line of protection, protection, protection, with a measure of exposure so that they can be effective ministers in the long run. I need so much of God and none of me as we walk in this!!! I would love to know you and your family more as you also make these difficult choices.
Rusty told me you have a beautiful and Godly family, and I can tell that from seeing your blog. I too hope to meet you in person soon!